Ian Rankin and Rona Munro In conversation

Ian: So, Rona, what were your feelings when you were first approached about Long Shadows?

Rona: My first reaction was that I hadn’t read the books with enough attention! I think my brain clicked into ‘homework’ mode. Years of encounters with John Rebus, purely for pleasure, didn’t seem to qualify me for the responsibility. Of course, I then re-read the novels, especially the ones that focused on that strange, potent dynamic between Rebus and Cafferty. That reminded me that reading for pleasure was the point; that’s why the books are so fantastic. The job was to try and transfer that appreciation to the stage in a way that was theatrical but also satisfying to fans of the books.

Ian: Yes, I was certainly keen to see your ‘take’ on that powerful relationship between Rebus and Cafferty. The two share an empathy but also an antipathy. They seem to me like warring sides of the same split personality — and as you know I’ve always had a fascination for books such as R L Stevenson’s Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde and James Hogg’s Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner. I was also interested in the way you had dealt with masculine/ royal power (and disempowerment) in your James Plays for the National Theatre of Scotland. Scotland is such a small country, I think people outside reckon all the writers must know each other, but we had somehow conspired never to bump into one another until we started bouncing ideas around about a Rebus stage play. Do you remember the early stages of that working relationship?

Rona: Well, I think we made it up as we went along, didn’t we? I don’t know about you, but I always felt that it had to be as organic as a conversation. I didn’t go into the project with any expectations of how we would work together. I thought we’d probably just start from that first mug of coffee and chocolate biscuit in your living-room and see what felt comfortable. I think every creative collaboration I’ve ever been part of has depended on mutual respect and trust. In this case, the biggest leap of trust probably came from you — Rebus is yours, after all. I know you’ve let others get their sticky paws on him with TV adaptations, and you seem very laid back and not at all possessive of the great man. Is that something you’ve had to work at or did you always feel able to detach?

Ian: I think it was easier to detach in the early years. When the first Rebus novel came out, there was immediate TV interest from Leslie Grantham (who was famous at the time for playing Dirty Den on BBC’s East Enders). He wanted to move the action to London so he could play Rebus as a London cop. I took one look at the fee being offered and I was delighted with that. But then it never happened. I think throughout my years with Rebus I’ve come to accept that he belongs to everybody, most notably his fans. You and I did discuss this, I remember — we wanted to produce a play that would engage lifelong fans while still being accessible to an audience who might not know the books but love a night out at the theatre. I know you hadn’t worked with the whodunit genre previously — did the format present you with particular issues as a playwright?

Rona: I think it depends on the whodunit, doesn’t it? Drama is always a whydunit — that’s what creates drama, the emotions and character backstories are what creates the action. A whodunit then needs a twist which satisfies, a plot twist, something the audience can’t see coming but which satisfies when it does. There are very skilfully created detective novels that provide a puzzle or a plot twist but don’t necessarily have character change. I don’t think that kind of story transfers well to the theatre stage. Fortunately, the Rebus novels have always been as much about character — and character development — as plot. Over the course of the series we’ve been able to watch Rebus shift his views as he ages and takes in the moral lessons of the various cases he has worked on.

Ian: Yes, I think from the get-go we both felt this had to work both as a twisty psychological thriller and as a study in character. What did you feel the stage version of Rebus could bring out that the novels couldn’t?

Rona: You get to see the characters live in real-time. I think that has an excitement — as all theatre does — that’s unique. The characters appear in living, breathing 3D in front of the audience.

Ian: Yes, when I go to the theatre I feel a level of participation in these characters’ lives that rarely happens when they are on a screen, big or small. But let’s go back to the process, because as well as working with me, you were also liaising with the play’s director — can you say a little about that?

Rona: Where do I start? The relationship between playwright and director is a particularly close one in theatre. In this case, of course, it’s essentially a relationship between two writers and a director, and I think with new writing the director is an essential conduit between the writer’s intentions and the actors’ portrayal of those intentions. A good director understands what you meant by any particular line of dialogue and what’s working about the drama. They then know how to translate that into instructions and support that the actors will find useful or vital. Directors can also let you know when your intentions — what those lines of dialogue need to convey — is not surviving the test of the rehearsal room.

Ian: Not so dissimilar from the relationship between novelist and editor. A good editor makes the book better by pointing to where lines, scenes or characters don’t work or could work better.

Rona: Yes, sometimes what’s in the playwright’s head needs a rewrite to make it into better theatre. I always sit in on the first part of the rehearsal process and fully expect to have to ‘tweak’ a script (at the very least!) once we get things up on their feet and being played out live in that room.

Ian: God, I remember that experience from Dark Road. As a novelist, once the book is printed and bound, you can’t make any more alterations or improvements — you’re stuck with it. But right up until the previews, with a paying audience seeing that play for the first time, cuts and tweaks were being made. I remember one whole scene being cut by the director (who also happened to be the co-writer) and I thought: really? You can do that? The actors don’t mutiny? But those edits are always there for a purpose — to make the play as cohesive, coherent, and satisfying as possible. Of course, I was aware that you had worked with Roxana before and you really rated her, so that made the whole relationship easier. I recall the three of us enjoying more coffee and biscuits in my living-room, and the occasional brainstorming session over a meal.

Rona: We were challenged weren’t we? Our plot was interrogated with steely determination and we had to find the answers to a lot of probing questions! But I think the story became better for it.

Ian: Of course, we were writing a new Rebus adventure from scratch rather than adapting one of the existing stories. Do you recall how that decision was made? And is it easier than trying to adapt?

Rona: I can answer the second part of that but not the first. As a playwright I think adapting a novel for the stage is straightforward, insofar as the majority of plot- and character-decisions have already been taken for you. However, it is problematic when the form of the narrative needs a lot of wrestling to fit into an evening’s theatre. A very long novel with multiple scenes and flashbacks would, for example, present particular difficulties. I think a meaty short story is actually probably a much easier fit. But to bounce that back to you, why did you decide that we two should concoct a story between us and develop it collaboratively rather than present me with a completed narrative (in short story form, say)?

Ian: Ach, I think I just wanted to hang out with a great contemporary playwright and watch how their mind works, maybe learning some new skills or at least stretching myself along the way. Creative writers are very different in their attitudes, working methods and ways of seeing (and then presenting) the world. The relationship between Rebus and Cafferty is very male working-class, very macho, very Scottish. I wanted to watch how you would approach that. Our lengthy discussions made me think deeply about my own understanding (or lack of it) of these two characters — not forgetting Siobhan Clarke, who also has an important role to play in Long Shadows! As a novelist, of course, I have the lazy privilege of being able to use as many scenes, locations, words and characters as I like. Did you find any problem with retaining the atmosphere of the books within the necessary restrictions of a stage play?

Rona: Well, that was made easier because we did develop the story from scratch rather than try to shoehorn in some pre-existing narrative. It was a lot easier to concentrate the action in time and space. I also feel that a lot of the ‘action’ in your books is actually internal — it is formed of Rebus’s observations of and reactions to events. That’s a good fit for the stage as it can be shown in ways that are very theatrical.

Ian: I certainly enjoyed the journey, Rona.

Rona: Me, too. See you in the theatre!

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